Publié : mar. 27 oct. 2015 13:36
Suisse is very good but les suisses no good
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https://www.descente-canyon.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=10227
Mercigiputxi a écrit :Suisse is very good but les suisses no good
Sorry, you noholzi a écrit :Mercigiputxi a écrit :Suisse is very good but les suisses no good
Te entiendo muy bien, pero hay que quedar diplomatico !!! I understand but lets not make so quick generalizations, which only lead to anger and does not help finding solutions... And in our cases, a suisse is trying to help !!! Don't confond people and the traditions, laws and cutoms that surounder them ! And even if you wish to criticise traditions or laws, to which you are fully entitled, make sure you do it kindly and in a constructive manner, because many take country, traditions, laws, and people as whole, as a take it or leave it, and feel attacked when you don't mean to criticise them personnally. DC forum is among those that show the most mutual respect and attention to others that I know, so lets keep it that way... Thank you Holzi for what you do...giputxi a écrit :Suisse is very good but les suisses no good
Hello emilium, somos los españoles que estábamos el otro dia en el parking de trummelbach. One thing is forbidden for any reason with weight and another is prohibited by prohibiting, prohibit only the things that do not give money, spend on petrol swiss, car vignette, buy food in supermarket suisse, not worth only that!!emilium a écrit :Te entiendo muy bien, pero hay que quedar diplomatico !!! I understand but lets not make so quick generalizations, which only lead to anger and does not help finding solutions... And in our cases, a suisse is trying to help !!! Don't confond people and the traditions, laws and cutoms that surounder them ! And even if you wish to criticise traditions or laws, to which you are fully entitled, make sure you do it kindly and in a constructive manner, because many take country, traditions, laws, and people as whole, as a take it or leave it, and feel attacked when you don't mean to criticise them personnally. DC forum is among those that show the most mutual respect and attention to others that I know, so lets keep it that way... Thank you Holzi for what you do...giputxi a écrit :Suisse is very good but les suisses no good
You say: La nourriture "interdite par la police", do you mean "confisquée", "taken by them"?? Did they take your food??!! If so that is completly crazy indeed and does look like persecution! Hais hecho guapos canyones al menos ??? Peut être faudrait-il ouvrir une page spéciale dans le forum pour l'échange des mauvaises et bonnes expérience en suisse, afin d'élaborer des stratégies pour que les bonnes deviennent plus nombreuses, réduire les mauvaises... , et se restreindre ici aux infos concernant Trummelbach.giputxi a écrit :Chaque voyage que je fais à Swiss toujours des problèmes avec la pólice! in the last trip in Flims a fat man It forces us to leave Turnigla, He said the whole canyon was forbidden, ni superior ni inferior all is verboten-verboten, appeler la police et ils viennent d'identifier nous. La nourriture achetée au supermarché en Suisse, interdit à la police parce que je fais la cuisine dans la rue avec mon camping-gaz?!!
Je ne peux pas dormir tous les jours dans une auberge ou en camping, je ne pas avoir beaucoup d'argent, Qu'est-ce que je fais? je arrêter de faire du canyoning en Suisse parce que je ne pas beaucoup d'argent? toujours toujours des problèmes en Suisse... all is verboten for them. Again they took us Flims Valley police for getting us on a path forbidden, amende 100 CH. I think too extrict the country, despite paying the fine They force us to leave.
Ce n'est pas un cas, car rien que dans mon cas c'est arrivé plusieurs fois, sur une seule semaine, et la psychorigidité suisse en matière de picnic et de free tourisme, en particulier dans l'Oberland, semble être de notoriété publique, sans vouloir généraliser et au contraire avec une pensée pour les pauvres âmes vivant là-bas et qui pensent autrement ! De plus tu sembles suggérer que si on a des embrouilles, c'est qu'on n'est pas discret et/ou irrespectueux. Vrai : prenant une route interdite, il ne faut pas s'étonner de prendre une amende. On peut s'étonner cependant de voir si souvent les riverains sauter sur leur téléphone pour appeler la police dés que quelqu'un s'arrête manger sur le bas côté. Le picnic, dormir dans sa voiture, cela est-il indiscret, irrespectueux?? Si tu dors dans ta voiture et mange des sandwich depuis si longtemps en suisse sans avoir d'ennui, je voudrais savoir comment et où!!! A moins qu'en suisse les coins où on n'est pas embêtés par la police ne soient comme des coins à champignons, on les gardes pour soi, trop rares, trop fragiles... Mais tu sembles dire le contraire. Si tu penses qu'on ne devrait pas aller faire de canyoning en suisse à moins de payer auberges, camping et restaurant chaque soir, dis le clairement, et sans badiner. On peut se mettre d'accord sur le fait de ne pas être d'accord! Car si je désapprouve la généralisation hâtive de Giputxi, je comprendrais sa colère face à ta réaction : tu suggères qu'il est irrespectueux sans avoir assisté aux incidents, et sans prêter attention à TOUT ce qu'il dit: comme lorsque qu'il explique que la police lui a pris sa nourriture, ou qu'on lui a interdit de descendre turnigla, y comrpis l'amont! Etant donné ce qui a été dit depuis hier, il est étonnant et remarquable qu'aucune de tes remarques n'incrimine les pratiques suisses, et que toutes incriminent les canyonistesbernotom a écrit :Il ne faut pas prendre un cas pour une généralité. Je fais du canyon en Suisse très régulièrement depuis 5 ans, je n’ai jamais rencontré la police !
Je fais en sorte d’être discret et respectueux et jusqu’à présent je n’ai eu aucun problème.
No no confisquee la nourriture mais interdire la cuisson dans le parking, Je l'ai entendu dire qu'il est interdit de passer la douane avec de la nourriture dans la voiture, pas de savoir si il est vrai.emilium a écrit :You say: La nourriture "interdite par la police", do you mean "confisquée", "taken by them"?? Did they take your food??!! If so that is completly crazy indeed and does look like persecution! Hais hecho guapos canyones al menos ??? Peut être faudrait-il ouvrir une page spéciale dans le forum pour l'échange des mauvaises et bonnes expérience en suisse, afin d'élaborer des stratégies pour que les bonnes deviennent plus nombreuses, réduire les mauvaises... , et se restreindre ici aux infos concernant Trummelbach.giputxi a écrit :Chaque voyage que je fais à Swiss toujours des problèmes avec la pólice! in the last trip in Flims a fat man It forces us to leave Turnigla, He said the whole canyon was forbidden, ni superior ni inferior all is verboten-verboten, appeler la police et ils viennent d'identifier nous. La nourriture achetée au supermarché en Suisse, interdit à la police parce que je fais la cuisine dans la rue avec mon camping-gaz?!!
Je ne peux pas dormir tous les jours dans une auberge ou en camping, je ne pas avoir beaucoup d'argent, Qu'est-ce que je fais? je arrêter de faire du canyoning en Suisse parce que je ne pas beaucoup d'argent? toujours toujours des problèmes en Suisse... all is verboten for them. Again they took us Flims Valley police for getting us on a path forbidden, amende 100 CH. I think too extrict the country, despite paying the fine They force us to leave.
Asi fue antilolo, nos llamaron la atención por estar cocinando a la vista de la gente y colgar los neoprenos en un parking, exactamente fue en parking de Rütti, parking de Sefi, vino un vecino en bici y nos mando del lugar. Otra vez fue en Flims con la policía, en Lago la Cresta tre tre problematic.antilolo a écrit :Quand Guiputxi parle de la nourriture, j'ai compris qu'il faisait la popote au bord de la route, ça peut être assimilé à du camping sauvage => interdit => problèmes
Dur dur quand les latins vont en vacances chez les Germaniques
you're being too hard on me, the blame it is of the openbach for publiquer those canyons, euphoria is triggered and what happens happensLaurinette a écrit :oui, si on ne peut plus rouler à 180 km/h sur l'autoroute, franchement je ne sais pas où on va. Et en plus, on y va lentement!
Caracal a écrit :Merci Laurinette qui a bien résumé les choses.
Il est vrai que le but n'estp as de faire la Suisse contre le reste du monde. Surtout pour un pays qui est d'abord habité par des gens ouvert au savoir vivre exemplaire.
Mais il est vrai que c'est très fatiguant, de se promener dans un pays où on ne sait jamais si on est dans la légalité. Que ce soit, les parking, les vitesse, les arrêts, les pratiques sportives. bien sur, les locaux vous répondent, "consultez le réglement de police à disposition de tous ". Ce qui est super pratique
Ensuite, une sensation très désagréable m'agace toujours, cette impression que tout est possible si tu payes très chère. Cher la nourriture, l'essence, les hébergements, les accès,... Bien entendu, tout ne peux pas être gratuit, en particulier les services publics. Mais que c'est usant d'avoir cette impression d'être dans un pays merveilleux seulement pour les plus riches (PS : problématiques qui concerne aussi le salarier suisse de "base", vive le Franc fort )
Tu vas finir en prison comme giputxiemilium a écrit :Holzi m'a demandé de préciser les conditions dans lesquelles nous avons pris l'amende, pour mettre tout cela au clair. Je l'en remercie encore et je copie ici ma réponse, qui pourraient en intéresser d'autres:
"Hey Holzi,
Thanks again for trying to sort that out. We parked at the "visitor only" parking for Trummelbach, on the left when you arrive there. We wondered if this was ok, but Giputxi, who happened to be there with his team, told us it was ok, and the policeman who was waiting for us at the cars after the descent confirmed there was no problem about parking when I asked precisely about that. We had 2 cars, one Yellow Renault van and a smaller blue Peugeot one (mine). We started quite early from there and walked on the road first, then took on the left to walk up the canyon on the left bank, up the cleaf by the path (RG) and started the canyon from the footbridge. In all of this we did exactly as discribed in the appraoch of Trummelbach in the new Openbach's Topo book. We tryed to be discret in the approach (it was quite early) as well as in the canyon itself (no shoutings, we kept in some kind of inner euphoria . At some point we wondered if one of the persons looking at us was the landlord, because he looked a bit angry compared to all the other tourists, litterally pleased by the show we unwillingly provided. We got even more discret after that. We came out of the canyon after a last picture of the 3 of usinfront of the last waterfall, on the left bank, and walked to the car as we came. That's where we saw a policeman waiting for us: He asked us to get dressed before he explain the problem. I asked many question about what was wrong and he told me it was only a matter of violation of private property, no problemabout car parking or anything else. He recognised himself this is strange given the fact that watercourse belongs to the public in switzerland too, but he was not really clear and coherent since he did not want to acknowledge we did nothing illegal, and insisted on the fact that doing canyoning into trummelbach is forbiden at any time of the year. I asked from chere the canyon is forbiden, having in mind the upper parts, and he could not say. So I insist on the fact that when we get into the canyon, nothing indicates it to be forbiden. We did not see the signs on left bank at the end of the canyon, we did not pay any attention given we were confident in the fact that we didnot do anything wrong or illegal. The policeman showed those signs to us. It's writen in german and I should have taken a picture of it, because I only understood "verboten" and something about a fine of 2000CHF!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I did not try to hide my reprobation and how unfair I thought it was, but made sure the policeman saw it was not directed toward him, because he kept very polite all along, andjust told us that the instruction of giving us a fine came from the court that had been contacted (by the landlord???), and that given that, he could not do anything else. I could have left at that point because he did not have my passeport, which was with my girfriend (who did not go in the canyon with us). He trust me anyway and aked us to join him a bit later at the police station in Lauterbrunnen to pay the fine and get the other's passeports back. And this is what we did... We should receive some documents, soon I hope, because we only paid a deposit in case of a futur official fine. I'll let you know as soon as I get the documents from the court...
I'm sorry this was long but I hope it's clear and delailed enough. Thanks again...
Emile"
it's crazy!! même chose qui nous est arrivé dans le Turnigla amont only, mais finalment pas amende. Je l'espère tout va bien, stay informed, courage.emilium a écrit :Holzi m'a demandé de préciser les conditions dans lesquelles nous avons pris l'amende, pour mettre tout cela au clair. Je l'en remercie encore et je copie ici ma réponse, qui pourraient en intéresser d'autres:
"Hey Holzi,
Thanks again for trying to sort that out. We parked at the "visitor only" parking for Trummelbach, on the left when you arrive there. We wondered if this was ok, but Giputxi, who happened to be there with his team, told us it was ok, and the policeman who was waiting for us at the cars after the descent confirmed there was no problem about parking when I asked precisely about that. We had 2 cars, one Yellow Renault van and a smaller blue Peugeot one (mine). We started quite early from there and walked on the road first, then took on the left to walk up the canyon on the left bank, up the cleaf by the path (RG) and started the canyon from the footbridge. In all of this we did exactly as discribed in the appraoch of Trummelbach in the new Openbach's Topo book. We tryed to be discret in the approach (it was quite early) as well as in the canyon itself (no shoutings, we kept in some kind of inner euphoria . At some point we wondered if one of the persons looking at us was the landlord, because he looked a bit angry compared to all the other tourists, litterally pleased by the show we unwillingly provided. We got even more discret after that. We came out of the canyon after a last picture of the 3 of usinfront of the last waterfall, on the left bank, and walked to the car as we came. That's where we saw a policeman waiting for us: He asked us to get dressed before he explain the problem. I asked many question about what was wrong and he told me it was only a matter of violation of private property, no problemabout car parking or anything else. He recognised himself this is strange given the fact that watercourse belongs to the public in switzerland too, but he was not really clear and coherent since he did not want to acknowledge we did nothing illegal, and insisted on the fact that doing canyoning into trummelbach is forbiden at any time of the year. I asked from chere the canyon is forbiden, having in mind the upper parts, and he could not say. So I insist on the fact that when we get into the canyon, nothing indicates it to be forbiden. We did not see the signs on left bank at the end of the canyon, we did not pay any attention given we were confident in the fact that we didnot do anything wrong or illegal. The policeman showed those signs to us. It's writen in german and I should have taken a picture of it, because I only understood "verboten" and something about a fine of 2000CHF!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I did not try to hide my reprobation and how unfair I thought it was, but made sure the policeman saw it was not directed toward him, because he kept very polite all along, andjust told us that the instruction of giving us a fine came from the court that had been contacted (by the landlord???), and that given that, he could not do anything else. I could have left at that point because he did not have my passeport, which was with my girfriend (who did not go in the canyon with us). He trust me anyway and aked us to join him a bit later at the police station in Lauterbrunnen to pay the fine and get the other's passeports back. And this is what we did... We should receive some documents, soon I hope, because we only paid a deposit in case of a futur official fine. I'll let you know as soon as I get the documents from the court...
I'm sorry this was long but I hope it's clear and delailed enough. Thanks again...
Emile"